Comments on AIMeD Corporation: AMD Loses another $Billion in Q2'08 while Hector g...

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anon: "What is lost in his flaming about x-bit lab...

2008-08-07T14:08:00.000Z

anon: "What is lost in his flaming about x-bit labs is that the overclock in question was in the neighborhood of 4.5 - 4.6GHz!"

I saw the review he linked to. They also use something called the OCCT stability test, which is designed specifically to test the stability of overclocked CPUs. No idea how effective the application is, though. They also did state that they used small FFTs mode for the Prime95 test, for what it is worth.

He mentions running OCCT on the CPU when it was OC'ed to 4570MHz and at 4275MHz when testing power draw. The E8600 they got was pretty impressive. It clocked from 3333MHz to 3900MHz at default voltage (1.2), 4450MHz at 1.4v, and 4570MHz at 1.5v. Looks like they got this while using a slightly fancy HSF, but it seems as if they did it with air cooling.

Apparently Intel will be releasing the E8400 and E8500 in E0 stepping versions soon as well (if they haven't already). That might make for some interesting overclocks.

Wasnt' scientia supposed to be a programmer? If he...

2008-08-07T08:58:00.000Z

Wasnt' scientia supposed to be a programmer? If he is then he must be pretty bad one or retired for more than 15 years. Pretty much every programmer who knows anything knows that Java isn't interpreted language. He also seems to lack a lot of knowledge about JIT compiling and real-world experience on the field.

Abinstein seems to be worried that Larrabee can run OS as fast as 1GHz Atom. Well, I've yet to see OS taking significant part of my CPU resources. It's the GUI rendering and user applications that does it. Also he seems to think that if you put OS on Larrabee it will be downgraded to single-core Pentium because old pentiums didn't support any of the Larrabee features. I wonder why is it so hard for him to understand that OS'es aren't programmed for specific CPUs and they use whatever features they expose like multiple cores and HT.

Uhh, Doc, there are 10 comments missing. Was it so...

2008-08-07T01:56:00.000Z

Uhh, Doc, there are 10 comments missing. Was it something I said?

SPARKS

I've seen plenty of posts in overclocking forums w...

2008-08-06T23:17:00.000Z

I've seen plenty of posts in overclocking forums where SuperPi is provided as *one of* the results.

Not to belabor the point, but there is a HUGE difference between someone using SuperPi to show the result of an overclock and the person using SuperPi to demonstrate stability (which is what you insinuated)

Quite frankly a portion of AMD fans have got hung up on this and need to stop whining about the efficiency and usefulness of this. SuperPi is an arbitrary benchmark, and is a quick and dirty of comparing OC's. Is it ideal? Of course not. Is it a useful program? Of course not. Is it something I would use? No, but I'm not going to complain about others wanting to use it.

Do people claim stability based solely on running SuperPi? I'd be curious to see a few links where this is explicitly stated. As you have done in the past, you are starting to evolve your statements over the course of a few posts.

So HYC, if you have problems with these other forums - post your specific concerns there. If you've seen similar posts here, point them out - but stop with the broad generalizations.

I've seen a forum of AMD fans where they compared Intel to Nazi's... should I go post over at AMDzone and ask why are some AMD fans doing that? Of course not, as the folks at AMDZone were not the ones saying it, and are not responsible or representative of all fans.

Blogger pointer said... I think the point is t...

2008-08-06T20:16:00.000Z

Blogger pointer said...

I think the point is that an overclock isn't "stable" unless it can also run any program(s) on it without crashing or producing incorrect results.

This is true from intel's standpoint, but not from the user's stand point. As long as whatever a user do with his system doesn't crash due to OC, it is perfectly fine for the particular users. Intel on the other hand, cannot sell such high freq rated part of it could crash or the parameters exceed certain spec such as TDP, etc.

Right, fair enough.

If it's only stable enough to boot and get SuperPi running, but no other apps work, then it's pointless, let alone stable...

This is the exact problem with people in AMDZone. Attacking SuperPi, misleading people as if this is the only benchmark run that intel has a lead ...

and in this context, misleading people as if those people do the OC claim stability with the superPi only.

I was just using SuperPi as an example to illustrate the position, don't take it too literally. I understand your point; I've seen plenty of posts in overclocking forums where SuperPi is provided as *one of* the results. Occasionally you'll see a post like "I got it to XX speed and SuperPi, but nothing else worked so I had to back it down" so I think most people know it's not a sufficient test in itself.

I recall that Prime95 actually heats a processor more than Orthos, which is probably why Scientia harps on Prime95 so much. I'm a little skeptical of its relevance since in my own day-to-day work, I run pretty much 100% integer code. I might be curious to see how well Fractint runs as a stability test instead, using pure integer/fixed-point arithmetic to heat the cores.

Deneb looks promising.http://www.hardspell.com/doc...

2008-08-06T19:46:00.000Z

Deneb looks promising.

http://www.hardspell.com/doc/hard/79579.htm

AMD might have chance to compete with Intel's YFD/NHM after all.

Scientia's blog has become the poster child of log...

2008-08-06T15:05:00.000Z

Scientia's blog has become the poster child of logical fallacy. (Sharikou forgoes all pretense of being a serious blog). Just read any of the blog entries and comments over the last 2 years. When addressing any topic that he deems Pro-Intel or Anti-AMD he begins with:

1. Create Straw Man or Red Herring.
2. When people call him out on his misinformation, resort to ad-hominems.
3. Move onto new topic, rinse/repeat.

Naysayer and doubters alike, here's what an obscen...

2008-08-06T08:43:00.000Z

Naysayer and doubters alike, here's what an obscenely cooled QX9770 by the extremely talented enthusiast lunatic fringe can do.

http://www.nordichardware.com/Articles/?skrivelse=538

I'm very comfortable at 4 Gig, thank you.

SPARKS

“This my friends, rivals the arrogance of Ruiz.”I ...

2008-08-06T07:44:00.000Z

“This my friends, rivals the arrogance of Ruiz.”

I must apologize, but I will have to take exception to this, despite that human compiler mind of yours.

NOTHING, rivals the arrogance of Wrector Ruinz.

SPARKS

My bad it was 335Mil (and change) that wasn't coun...

2008-08-06T05:02:00.000Z

My bad it was 335Mil (and change) that wasn't counted.

* 335Mil votes not counted
* Yang's against vote went up by ~312Mil(based on diappproval % before and after)

So in what clearly must just be a remarkable coincidence the vote that wasn't counted just happened to be going 93.3% against Yang. Yeah, I would trust these "yahoos" (pun intended) to run my company.

A bit offtopic, but management that makes AMD's lo...

2008-08-06T04:47:00.000Z

A bit offtopic, but management that makes AMD's look like shining stars.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26046479/site/14081545?__source=yahoo|headline|quote|text|&par=yahoo

Part of me wishes I still had a few shares of that stock (so I could launch a variety of lawsuits). Unfortunately (?), I was smart enough to dump it a long time ago as it is generally unwise to hold shares in a company that has such poor management.

The bottom line - Yahoo surprised everyone when they announced there was only 15% opposed to Jerry Yang in the recent shareholder vote, a number which confused many analysts....

Well, apparently there were some "tabulation" errors and a few, ummm a minor....200 MILLION (out of 1.4Bil) votes were not counted and the disapproval % went from 15% to just under 34% (which is rather high given the support Icahn gave at the last minute in exchange for seats on the board).

A mistake, some in the Microsoft camp tell me, that speaks directly to Yahoo's credibility and why Microsoft ultimately walked from the deal. One source close to Microsoft tells me the company never trusted the numbers it was getting from Yahoo. That was a fact brought home by Yahoo's refusal to acknowledge Microsoft's higher offer, that would take the bid ultimately to $47.5 billion.

It is management like this that makes you scratch your head. Here's hoping the true details are uncovered and someone is actually serving some hard time or at least time at one of the country club federal prisons (yeah there's no chance in hell, but I can dream can't I?).

The stock is now $19.82, and I'm guessing Yahoo is sticking by the belief that the $33 (or more) that MS offered is "undervalued". This my friends, rivals the arrogance of Ruiz.

Blogger hyc said... Well... When you buy a CPU...

2008-08-06T02:52:00.000Z

Blogger hyc said...

Well... When you buy a CPU and run it at its rated speed, you expect to be able to run any program(s) on it without any instability.

I think the point is that an overclock isn't "stable" unless it can also run any program(s) on it without crashing or producing incorrect results.

This is true from intel's standpoint, but not from the user's stand point. As long as whatever a user do with his system doesn't crash due to OC, it is perfectly fine for the particular users. Intel on the other hand, cannot sell such high freq rated part of it could crash or the parameters exceed certain spec such as TDP, etc.

If it's only stable enough to boot and get SuperPi running, but no other apps work, then it's pointless, let alone stable...

This is the exact problem with people in AMDZone. Attacking SuperPi, misleading people as if this is the only benchmark run that intel has a lead ...

and in this context, misleading people as if those people do the OC claim stability with the superPi only.

This used to be Scientia commenting tactic which i described in some posting long ago. Mix an unrelated but correct statement, to imply a wrong statement true.

“And how is prime 95 across all cores the arbiter ...

2008-08-06T02:14:00.000Z

“And how is prime 95 across all cores the arbiter of that? You keep changing the arguments around... where did anyone state superpi should be used to measure a stable overclock, or simply the ability to boot?”

Quite right.

You made some poignant analogies in a previous post. Subwoofers as related to design parameters, Xmax, Fs, etc, please, allow mw to make one.

Lets take, say, a Bugatti Venron, for example. Would you say the engine is a dog or it shouldn’t be rated at 600 or 700 HP because the engine couldn’t hold up running a week straight at top RPM and HP? No the Venron’s motor was designed for dynamic loads in real world operating conditions. Taking my QX9770 to full load in Prime95 for an hour, a week, whatever, is like putting a Venron on a chassis dyno and running in at full bore 24/7 for a month. Of course the million dollar son-of-bitch is going to blowup. Does this mean the car sucks? Nonsense.

Look, this is fact, I own a QX9770, and have been running in for months now at 4.06 GHz on air, with nary a glitch, on every game and every program sans one, Prime95. I clocked it down to 3.85, and it would run Prime95 all friggen day. It simply overwhelmed the Zalman CPS9700LED’s ability to cool the chip. There’s no INTC conspiracy theory here. In real world usage the 4 cores are NEVER, HELLO!!!, loaded 100%! It’s running so well DYNAMICALLY, I DON’T NEED WATER!

They can speculate and criticize, theorize, and compromise all they want. They can speculate about the HOTWOMEN, THE HOT CARS, THE HOT BOATS, AND THE HOT CHIPS, until their nuts turn blue. To these guys, who don’t have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, they will never know. They just pick on some small detail and say sour grapes; it sucks, and they’ll derive some SMALL inner satisfaction!

It a losers way out, if they can’t have it, afford it, or have a personal grudge, they’ll knock it. They’ll criticize the hot women, and then they’ll go home and rub one out just thinking about her, then tell you later what a bitch she is.

I’ve seen it my entire life.

QX9770, the best desktop chip in the world, @ 4.06 on air 24/7, the rest is just plain horseshit.

SPARKS

I think the point is that an overclock isn't "stab...

2008-08-05T22:38:00.000Z

I think the point is that an overclock isn't "stable" unless it can also run any program(s) on it without crashing or producing incorrect results.

If it's only stable enough to boot and get SuperPi running, but no other apps work, then it's pointless, let alone stable...

And how is prime 95 across all cores the arbiter of that? You keep changing the arguments around... where did anyone state superpi should be used to measure a stable overclock, or simply the ability to boot? You keep trying to spin/reinterpret these arguments and it is quite honestly getting frustrating.

So I'll go back to my original point if I'm OC'ing and haven't had a single issue for weeks, does it really matter (to me) if it can or can't run Prime95? Should I suddenly lower my OC if I find out Prime95 crashes (even though I don't see any other effect on anything else I do)? My point (and I think other's as well) is that there is no single OC benchmark goodness barometer and Dementia is just trying to invent one to take Intel, or various reviewers he has some personal vendetta against, down a few pegs.

What is lost in his flaming about x-bit labs is that the overclock in question was in the neighborhood of 4.5 - 4.6GHz! And he's nitpicking about small FTT vs large FTT's - even if that were an issue (and there is no data either way to suggest it is) is that really going to bring the overclock down 600MHz?!? He is fighting the typical guerrilla war - he knows he won't flat out win the argument so he attacks small points hoping this keeps people from remembering the bigger picture?

Quite honestly Dementia is starting to remind me of a certain Captain chasing around a certain whale.